Page 1 of 1

WPF & sudoku

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:54 am
by Fred76
Once again...

From WPF minutes 2017:
"The Board finalized a plan to appoint a panel to prepare Sudoku guidelines. Volunteers will be invited at the open General Assembly (GA). The panel should have three to five members, with a leader responsible for mediating the discussion and following a deadline set by the Board. They must submit a proposal by the end of March 2018."

"The panel was asked to prepare an interim report by the end of January, with a final report by the end of March. The panel's proposal will be published on the WPF Forum, with feedback invited from members"

Can you please give us some news about this subject. Thanks!


Re: WPF & sudoku

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:25 pm
by WPF
Hi Fred,

The blunt truth of it is, we haven't been given a report by the panel. I am told that some members at least have something to submit so I've planned a section for it during the open meeting in Prague. We will decide what to do about it there depending on what the response is.

Re: WPF & sudoku

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:29 pm
by Fred76
Thanks for the answer.

Can you keep us informed after the WSC/WPC about this subject, especially if the GA minutes are not published before the end of the year?
Thanks !

Re: WPF & sudoku

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:21 pm
by Fred76
I wanted to open a new thread but found this one whose title is perfect for what I've to ask.

Sudoku represent almost half of activities of WPF, with sudoku GP and WSC (WSC lasts 2 days while WPC lasts 3 days, that's why I said 'almost'). However none concern raised by sudoku community since WPF supervise WSC (2006) have been properly answered by WPF. Sometimes things have been tinkered by next year's competition director, but it can only be a temporary plaster. The sudoku community would be happy if the WPF has a clear view of the role of sudoku in WPF. As WPF Sudoku and puzzles have now separate competitions (the question of sudoku in puzzle competition is still pending), but I have the feeling that sudoku is not seen as a whole discipline. This is not good. Here are the issues raised since beginning of WSC history (it's my view, perhaps there are other concerns):

  • 2007: Simon Prett article in newsletter. The question is 'was it reasonable to make the WSC a minority sport for the same minority? A lot of players in the sudoku community are concerned by this point. Even if some of us take part regularly in puzzle tournaments, we don't find that it is a fair point of view to estimate that 'hopefully participants would have familiarized themselves with the underlying puzzle types as well.' Amit Sowani talking about puzzle hybrids containing sudoku, discussion about WSC 2017 round 7, his point of view is clearly that WSC players are familiarized with all kind WPC classic puzzles, which is not the case.
  • 2009: Thomas Snyder open letter. No kind of answer of WPF...
  • 2011: Too hard classic: A lot of players found inappopriate to have to solve classic sudoku which are not supposed to be solved by logic (author and tester have no logical path to propose, or the logical path would be way much time consuming, so that if you want to be competitive, that's not the good way to solve it). It seems that this issue is temporarily solved despite a resurgence in first round of sudoku GP 2014. But no answer from WPF, so who knows if this issue will not come back again...
  • 2013: sudoku GP, a round contained lot of controversial puzzles. This has been fixed next year by the sudoku GP director who asked at the beginning of year all authors a list of variants they planned to create. Without clearly saying on which criteria he could reject a puzzle type, it was a personal effort that never found relay in WPF (I think sudoku GP director 2016 also had some personal criteria to accept or reject a puzzle type in sudoku GP).
  • 2015: A puzzle with similar properties than decried 2009 WSC final puzzle Zilina appeared as a whole round of WSC. In this competition some other puzzles were questionable. I tried to open discussion on the WPF forum, without success. The WPF just ignored it, arguing it's just a 'personal opinion'. It looks like personal opinions of sudoku players are not welcome, even if these opinions are relayed by a WSC champion. I'm quite sure if I had been WPC champion, my personal opinion would have been discussed. But I'm not...
  • 2017: We had the most controversial WSC ever, concerning puzzle types (WSC 2009 had perhaps more organisational issues), all kind of generally accepted limits were largely exceeded, some players, after having seen the IB, regretted not to be able to cancel their flight and participation to this competition. This was the most extrem situation, where organisers have no kind of clear explanation of which kind of puzzles they consider as sudoku and which kind they don't consider as sudoku (despite a reassuring speach few months before the competition).

This is just a small list of concerns through history, but it shows the magnitude of the task for the future of WPF sudoku competitions. The only answer we have yet from WPF is 'we don't know what a sudoku is, thus we need a report'. It is clearly not enough. Knowing what a sudoku is is the step number 0 when you want to organise a sudoku competition. The WPF has now to climb all other steps if the goal is to do something serious with sudoku. I fear, in the actual situation, that it will not be possible to go further than just this step 0.

We have to find solutions. I suggest the creation of a sudoku dicastery inside the WPF board. A board member should be specifically dedicated to this question. His task would be to bring up the questions raised from sudoku community to the board, facilitate discussions and propose solutions. To think about sudoku promotion actions on which the director could work. Etc...

The sudoku community is concerned by the fact that people from puzzle community want to impose rules for sudoku competitions that the sudoku community would find inappropriate. We would like our sudoku player point of view to be taken into account in priority for sudoku competitions, when there is a consensus inside sudoku community. I hope the actions of actual board will be better than ones of previous years board.
We hope that the arrogance and condescension of some people in the puzzle community towards sudoku community people decrease a bit, too. We are not uneducated people because we never solved a masyu. (Well, in reality I solved masyus). And please don't feel attacked when we say we don't want to solve masyus in sudoku competition. The point is not that we dislike masyu or some other puzzles, we only hope sudoku will become a discipline in its own right. This is not a fight between puzzles and sudoku, this is a fight for sudoku, and we don't understand why we have to fight for this.

Yes, I arrogate the right to speak in the name of sudoku community. For years, sudoku is my passion and I spoke and conversed with as many players around the world as I can, and I see how some things are clearly agreed by so many people in the sudoku community (almost unanimously I would say) and just ignored by WPF and some people in the puzzle community.

I 'look forward' to see what the WPF will do for sudoku in the future.