Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Detuned » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:09 pm

Hi all,

At the recent opening meeting of the World Puzzle Federation, myself (Tom Collyer) and Wei-Hwa Huang were the only volunteers. A similar committee was formed in 2017, but as far as I can tell achieved either very little, or nothing. I intend to not let this happen again.

As such I'm going to post a few details of how I see this committee working. First off, the structure of the committee.

Chairman: Tom Collyer
Responsible for leading the committee, chairing meetings and drafting the report. Contact information:
email_address.png
email_address.png (7.59 KiB) Viewed 839 times


Secretary: (any volunteers?)
Responsible for assisting the chairman in preparing materials for meetings and taking minutes of meetings.

Other Members: Wei-Hwa Huang, (any volunteers)
Responsible for attending and contributing to meetings. Anyone is free to join the committee as long as they commit to joining the meetings. If you would prefer not to attend meetings, then you are still welcome to submit opinion/evidence. I will try my best to summarise this and present to the meetings where I see fit.

Meetings
I will try and facilitate discussions online via forum threads on a continuous basis, but I will insist on arranging more formal meetings which committee members should commit to attending.

The first meeting will happen sometime in January 2019, and will be run via video conference, probably via skype or google meets. More details on the logistics soon. In the meantime, the agenda of the first meeting has exactly one item:

1. Examples Workshop

Please bring along examples of puzzles that you do or do not consider to be sudoku. Please also bring along your reasons for why you believe that to be the case. The aim of the session is to get as broad a range of opinion as possible. It is very likely there will not be one unified position from this session but that doesn't matter. The purpose of the meeting is to gauge the feeling from the wider community.

Previous Committee
If the previous committee could please contact me to discuss exactly what it was able to achieve last year I would be grateful. Otherwise this committee will start from scratch.

Timelines
Meetings will occur over the first few months of 2019. A draft report will be circulated by June 2019 for comment, with a final version of the report submitted for consideration of the World Puzzle Federation no later than the next World Championships in the Autumn of 2019.

To get the ball rolling, here is some some initial thought for food. You may well disagree with this, that's fine, I just want to get the debate started.

Working Definition of Classic Sudoku:
Place a number from 1-9 in each empty cell in the grid such that each row, column and marked 3x3 box contains each number exactly once.

Sudoku Variation:
Classic Sudoku, with extra constraints, relaxed rules, different symbols or altered geometries, subject to certain limitations which the committee will try and pin down.
Detuned
 
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Detuned » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:07 am

I would also be very grateful if our esteemed WPF Director might deign to spend some of his precious time to help circulate this news.
Detuned
 
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby purifire » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:00 pm

Hi Tom,

You can count me in as a member if you wish. :)
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Detuned » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:23 am

We'd be glad to have you!
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Fred76 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:26 pm

Detuned wrote:To get the ball rolling, here is some some initial thought for food. You may well disagree with this, that's fine, I just want to get the debate started.

Working Definition of Classic Sudoku:
Place a number from 1-9 in each empty cell in the grid such that each row, column and marked 3x3 box contains each number exactly once.


This text is a nice formulation of rules for solving classic sudoku, but in no way a definition.
I can easily think about some puzzles that would perfectly fit these rules while not being classic sudoku, for example :

  • Expanded sudoku
  • Grids with N regions (3*3 boxes), N<9 (here, at the limit, even latin square could be ok – it has no 3*3 box, but your definition doesn't explicitely say the puzzle must have some 3*3 box, even if they are mentioned)
  • Grids with overlapping 3*3 boxes
  • Grids of size N*N, N>9 (solution contains blank cells)
  • Grids of size N*N, N>9,with some cells blackened
  • Etc...

A definition must contain a description of the object (such as "A classic sudoku is a square grid containing 9*9 cells", etc...) along with rules for solving.

P.S. I notice that even the parquet sudoku of WSC2014 has same rules, even if I find the formulation "3x3 box" not really clear for that kind of puzzle.
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Detuned » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:00 pm

I would like to announce a new discussion forum, kindly hosted by the UK Puzzle Association. The reason this is not being hosted by the WPF is because the registration process to these forums is a big barrier to wider contribution to the discussion.

The purpose of this forum is to gather a collection of examples of Sudoku variants which are in some ways debatable. Please feel free to bring your own examples together with why you think the puzzle is or isn't sudoku.

http://forum.ukpuzzles.org/viewforum.php?f=33
Detuned
 
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Detuned » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:03 pm

Fred76 wrote:
Detuned wrote:To get the ball rolling, here is some some initial thought for food. You may well disagree with this, that's fine, I just want to get the debate started.

Working Definition of Classic Sudoku:
Place a number from 1-9 in each empty cell in the grid such that each row, column and marked 3x3 box contains each number exactly once.


This text is a nice formulation of rules for solving classic sudoku, but in no way a definition.
I can easily think about some puzzles that would perfectly fit these rules while not being classic sudoku, for example :

  • Expanded sudoku
  • Grids with N regions (3*3 boxes), N<9 (here, at the limit, even latin square could be ok – it has no 3*3 box, but your definition doesn't explicitely say the puzzle must have some 3*3 box, even if they are mentioned)
  • Grids with overlapping 3*3 boxes
  • Grids of size N*N, N>9 (solution contains blank cells)
  • Grids of size N*N, N>9,with some cells blackened
  • Etc...

A definition must contain a description of the object (such as "A classic sudoku is a square grid containing 9*9 cells", etc...) along with rules for solving.

P.S. I notice that even the parquet sudoku of WSC2014 has same rules, even if I find the formulation "3x3 box" not really clear for that kind of puzzle.


Whilst I'd like to avoid being overly technical and pedantic with the final definition, we will certainly need to use plenty of technical language and pedantry to get us along this journey. I think you make a valuable point there Fred - what I posted there were rules to the puzzle, which is not quite the same thing as a definition.

Do you have an alternative formulation?

Thanks,
Tom
Detuned
 
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Re: Logistics of "What is a Sudoku" committee

Postby Fred76 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:10 am

I don't have a formulation of definition. It's true that usually in instructions booklets we just write the rules of solving along with an example, and the fact that competition puzzle have same structure is tacit.

I just had a look at wikipedia page about sudoku: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudoku where sudoku is defined as:

Sudoku (数独 sūdoku, digit-single) (/suːˈdoʊkuː/, /-ˈdɒk-/, /sə-/, originally called Number Place)[1] is a logic-based,[2][3] combinatorial[4] number-placement puzzle. The objective is to fill a 9×9 grid with digits so that each column, each row, and each of the nine 3×3 subgrids that compose the grid (also called "boxes", "blocks", or "regions") contains all of the digits from 1 to 9. The puzzle setter provides a partially completed grid, which for a well-posed puzzle has a single solution.


Fred
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