Director's work and salary

Director's work and salary

Postby Fred76 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:25 am

Please clarify what is the WPF director's work over the year and which salary he receives to do that work.

It seems that the regular work is no more done, a lot of tasks concerning communication/website update/search for sponsorship/ etc... are no more visible. Does the WPF director still receives salary for the tasks he doesn't make anymore?
It seems to me that director's job and salary are no more in adequacy (it could perhaps be ok if the director lives in Switzerland, where prices are very high...).
WPF members pay fees to WPF, a good amount of these fees go to pay the WPF director. If he has no more regular tasks to do, please reconsider his job's salary.

Also, please clarify what are the WPF representative advantages, do they have to pay WSC/WPC fees? I think if they take part in the competitions, they should pay fees like other players.

Thanks,
Fred
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Detuned » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:52 pm

What is the director's salary?

It would certainly be interesting to have a clearer idea of the activities of the WPF recently. I am not aware that it does very much!
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby WPF » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:15 am

Fred,

I did not respond to this because I honestly think its an ugly comment to make that the salary should differ based on the Director's country of origin, no matter what you seem to feel about me. It surprises and saddens me that no one has seen the need to point that out.

I also did not wish to respond because it is clear that you have made up your mind about things.

But I really want to point some things out now. Firstly, I want to tell you, point blank, that I was the one who even pushed the WPF towards a committee for the Sudoku Panel. I came up with some wording myself for the guidebook before all that, after which discussions went towards the board deciding to assign a committee and so on. I do not want to add more details at this moment. I had hoped that, since you do know me personally, and my email is publicly available to anyone anyway, you could just have had a one-on-one discussion, using the fact that I have a voice in the Board for moving things forward, while also giving me the common courtesy of talking to me before repeatedly questioning and attacking me in public, but that isn't you I guess.

As for the Director's job, I can clarify at least on the WPF website front that my job specifies managing the WPF website under "technical maintenance", which I do and have done. It does not include responding to every complaint about the WPF to every disgruntled player or randomly posting things without due process. The WPF forum is meant to be a place to discuss puzzles and share puzzle contests and events. For administrative matters, you can contact your member representative and get information through them, including the Director's job description and salary which has been shared in the past to all members and can be shared again if they wish for it, as well as details on what occurred during meetings if for some reason details aren't out yet.

Lastly, maybe this will all only make you more disillusioned, but please try to remember and consider that the WPF isn't a one man army. The board is nothing but elected representatives from the community and the Director is nothing but an employee who serves at the pleasure of the Board. The same issues of "part time", etc. apply to the people working on the WPF Board as well as much as they do to the rest of the community, and it really isn't productive to dismiss that. The last 3 Board elections have had the same number of candidates as positions.

That is all I wish to say right now. If you want to continue attacking me and the WPF go for it. If you want to contact me for a talk I welcome it.

Tom,

The WPF has been posting quarterly reports of its activities and has been sharing that with the members. The report for 2019 Q4 will be up within the first week of February, but otherwise, there have been reports for all of 2019 and I believe, the last quarter of 2018 too. The director's salary and all other transactions made by the Board are available in the Financial Report shared with the members every year. I will repeat what I said to Fred - please communicate with your member representative for administrative affairs. All the information gets shared to them already.
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Fred76 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:31 am

I'm sorry if my post can make believe that I think director salary should differ on the director's country origin. This is not the case.

WPF wrote:Firstly, I want to tell you, point blank, that I was the one who even pushed the WPF towards a committee for the Sudoku Panel.


And? Is it an exploit or just your job to do that kind of things? Should I applause because you did your job at this occasion?
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Detuned » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:43 pm

Thank you for being so very clear Prasanna. It appears the quarterly reports are publicly available:

http://www.worldpuzzle.org/archive/repo ... orts/2019/

Would you be prepared to publicly share what you consider to be your greatest achievement during your time as WPF Director? Or should I ask my member representative about that too?
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Fred76 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:13 am

Prasanna,

It's up to you to see my posts as attacks. It can be seen as reflections that can lead to improvements, too. I did a list of suggestions on this forum in april 2018 and I'm a bit sad to see that from this list very little things have been done. But I'm very aware about the fact that I'm not a board member and I can have no impact if people think these are bad ideas. My feeling is that these are not bad ideas, but some things require a bit of work from someone in the WPF and that simply no representant of WPF is here to do some work.

I give you credit that you're not alone at the WPF, and I've to say honestly I don't think the board is efficient as it should be. But at the end of the process, the only paid position is yours, and when Vladimir, a board member answer "Unfortunately, the federation doesn't have neither dedicated SMM specialist nor anyone else who'd be willing to do this kind of job." speaking about just saying a word about ASC after the competition on WPF website and facebook, I can't help thinking it really means "nobody is willing to do director's job", which sound very very very odd to my ears.
For me it shows both WPF board issue and WPF director issue, the latter not doing his job and the former forgetting the position of director is occupied by someone.
This work was done by Hana when she was director. I didn't start to make suggestions and comments when you got the director's job, I did that for long time, and I've to say that all things I said to Hana led to actions from her, whether directly, or she contacted the concerned people if she was not directly concerned, she never interpreted my actions as attacks or as something negative.

Public/private:

I'll continue to use the forum in the way that I think is adequate unless someone decide to ban me from the forum. I fear some of the private answers I received from you or the board by email or by facebook are not something you or the board could say publicly. Thus now, when I'm not the only person concerned, I'll open public discussion, you're free to answer me on the forum (which I prefer if I'm not the only person concerned), privately (you have my mail address too) or to not answer at all. I want to know primarily your public answer, not the answer you give to me privately whose purpose is just to make me shut up.

You have choice to continue to ignore my comments, suggestions, questions. But, maybe this will all only make you more disillusioned, I'll continue to do so and point out the big issues I see concerning WPF.

WPF Website:

Your job specifies managing the WPF website under "technical maintenance", does that means nobody is supposed to update the content of WPF website? Does someone feel attacked if I say this is a big issue and I suggest the board to find someone to do this job ASAP. My suggestion is that the job should be done by WPF director (as it was the case when Hana was director) as he is the only person who is supposed to do some regular work for WPF, but the most important thing is to get the job done, not who should do it.

Fred
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Fred76 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:30 am

The German website of LMD is a good example of what I would suggest for the WPF website news:

https://logic-masters.de/archiv.php

Regular news appears on the homepage of the website.
News are succinct but contain all relevant informations. There are news about competitions, before and after competition, and other communication concerning LMD, like logo design contest. Small pictures or logos make the content more lively.
Of course news concerning GP are already published on GP website and don't need replication on the WPF website, except at the beggining of year, and perhaps the results of the finals.

Again I'm well aware that it is just a suggestion, and that you're completely free to ignore it or disagree on the fact it is a good idea. You're obviously free to not give me justification if you won't make it, it is fine. The only thing I would find very odd, is an answer saying "we don't have someone willing to do this job".

Fred
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby WPF » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:17 pm

Tom,

I really do not think that is a productive discussion because I see any work we do as work of the WPF as a whole including the Board. Maybe in other occupations the Director's job is different but here it was made clear to me in my first year that I am to take actions with the Board's support, so its a team effort. That's all I wish to say about that.

Fred,

You may not have meant your posts as an attack, but I think I have a right to see them as such, and frankly, I do. Of course parts of these posts are feedback I will take into consideration. Of course sometimes pushes from people help me do the work that needs to be done and I appreciate that. But there is feedback, and there is a way to give it. All I can say is in my opinion the way you have gone about it isn't ideal. That doesn't mean I won't take it if I can use it to improve.

Regarding the Sudoku topic, as you said, I was just doing my job. I didn't make that point as some justification. But as you yourself have said, since 2007 and more vocally since 2015 there have been calls to do something about the Sudoku situation, with nothing happening until 2017, the year I became Director. I think and hope that shows that even if I am not happy with the approach, I do listen and do try to do something about it. I will remind you again that I have no vote in what actually gets done, and only implement what the board decides.

As for the work just getting done, I agree and disagree with you. If every single thing, even if each individual thing seems small and straightforward, falls to one person it becomes isolating and overwhelming. Hana also felt this. That is why she rushed through the final days of transferring the responsibilities to me, she was already on her way winding down. It will just become a constant stream of people who experience that with the job and that can suspend potential for growth. So I think while you are right to an extent there also needs to be a change in structure for long term sustenance, which is something I am working towards with the Board's support.

Lastly, I do not wish to take further space on the forum for arguing these things. By that I do not mean don't give feedback, by all means do so. I am just saying I don't see productivity in continuing long discussions about whether or not one person is doing their job without any involvement from the people who hire that person. So again, if you want information about how the WPF is run, my sincere suggestion is that you contact your member representative or the WPF Board.
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Detuned » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:06 pm

WPF wrote:Regarding the Sudoku topic, as you said, I was just doing my job. I didn't make that point as some justification. But as you yourself have said, since 2007 and more vocally since 2015 there have been calls to do something about the Sudoku situation, with nothing happening until 2017, the year I became Director. I think and hope that shows that even if I am not happy with the approach, I do listen and do try to do something about it. I will remind you again that I have no vote in what actually gets done, and only implement what the board decides.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll remind you what happened to the committee in 2017. I think it's great the WPF finally listened to the concerns of the community that year, but really the only thing it did was to invite some people to form a committee, and then give them zero support. it was hardly a surprise when it failed to do anything. I dare you to try and take credit for anything after that. I double dare you!

I'll attempt to rephrase the original question, as I do happen to think it is productive, and shines a bright light on how wisely WPF members' money is being spent. What are some of the highlights that the board and director, working as a team, have achieved since 2017?

I don't hold out too much hope for answer though - surprise me! That being the case I don't have too much more left to say, other than I hope the WPF wakes out of its state of lethargy and starts to match the enthusiasm of others throughout the community very soon - and I hope that you as the director are willing to take some responsibility for that. The fact that you are unable to talk about anything you are proud of in your job worries me greatly - it makes us all wonder if you have been doing anything at all. Those published reports don't really break that impression to be frank with you - they are less what the WPF is doing and more what the WPF is talking about doing.

I worry that the WPF will become wholly irrelevant if we don't see a bit more energy soon.
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Re: Director's work and salary

Postby Fred76 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:14 am

WPF wrote:Regarding the Sudoku topic, as you said, I was just doing my job. I didn't make that point as some justification. But as you yourself have said, since 2007 and more vocally since 2015 there have been calls to do something about the Sudoku situation, with nothing happening until 2017, the year I became Director. I think and hope that shows that even if I am not happy with the approach, I do listen and do try to do something about it. I will remind you again that I have no vote in what actually gets done, and only implement what the board decides.


Regarding the sudoku topic, I think honestly that claiming that WPF did something for sudoku in 2017 is a buffoonery.

In the following, WPF can mean WPF director, WPF board or WPF board and director as a team. I'll just name 'hybrids' puzzles from category 'puzzle hybrids containing sudoku'.

The goal of the report (if I understand correctly) is to provide a definition of sudoku, more precisely a limit between sudoku puzzles and non-sudoku puzzles and a limit between sudoku variants and hybrids. While, yes, in the community there are disagreement about where we set these limits, this is only a minor issue regarding past issues concerning WPF sudoku competitions.

The WPF has to answer 3 questions regarding sudoku, 2 of them being very fundamental and independant of the existence of the report. The report could help but is here to answer the 3rd question:

1. Should WSC be a sudoku competition (i.e. a competition composed of sudoku puzzles uniquely)?
2. Who is the target audience of the WSC and/or sudoku GP? an audience of experienced puzzle players or a wider audience*? (sudoku is popular outside the puzzle community)
3. Where are the limits of what we call 'sudoku'? And a technically hard question: Where are the limits between variants and hybrids?

Concerning 1rst question: the report will globally decide if small changes of basic rules are allowed. It concerns puzzles like surplus, deficit, blackout... We are far from speaking about issues appearing in past WSC ! The effects of report are anecdotic. You don't need the report to answer this fundamental question. I don't think it's possible to say that WPF do something for sudoku before we have a clear positive answer to this question.

Concerning 2nd question, I think we can sum it up as 'should WSC and sudoku GP contain hybrids?'. For that question, in the puzzle community there is a clear disagreement. The report will give some guidance, but will absolutely not answer the question. It has to be a choice made by the WPF. The main disagreement is clearly about appearance of hybrids in sudoku competitions, not about the location of limits between variants and hybrids. If the choice is to allow hybrids, I think the report is almost useless. The report will be really useful only if you decide that hybrids are not welcome in WPF sudoku competitions, because in that case, we have to set a limit and respect it. I'll add that if you decide to allow hybrids in WPF sudoku competition, the global situation will remain chaotic because I'm sure there will remain a lot of sudoku competition not containing hybrids, because a lot of organizers and authors already avoid hybrids in sudoku competitions (like for example ASC 2020).

Conclusion: We are in 2020 and we don't know yet the answer of the 2 fundamental questions of which are born the huge issues in WPF sudoku competitions. Only the WPF can answer these questions, these are choices (although if the answer of 1rst question is NO, then I'll urge the WPF to change the name of the competition, which can be totally misleading).

Another subject: I really don't like the way the WPF described the appointement of sudoku committee. You did clear (conscious or unconscious?) efforts to never mention what are the issues to fix. If we read GA minutes, we could think that nobody knows what a sudoku is and the role of the commitee is to create a totally new thing we could call 'sudoku'. That's totally ridiculous.

*By wider audience, I don't mean beginners. The voice for a larger audience is carried by people like Henning (didn't he take part in all WSC?), Tiit (he's now an experienced puzzle player, but perhaps not few years ago), Rishi and me. Each time I read arguments from you about larger audience, it is in reality about beginners, but we know WPF don't care about beginners, don't we? (unpublished ranking of division B and C of puzzle GP since 2018).
And I've to add one more thing about your argumentation that I don't like, you're always speaking about beginners and experienced players, without never specify if the experience is in the field of puzzles or sudoku.

Fred
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