WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Goran Vodopija » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:41 pm

Part 8, puzzle 13 (Islands in Scrabble): must common letters fit also for diacritical marks? (As letter Š in row4 column4)

Just to make sure about this puzzle and some other puzzles (part 10, puzzles 3, 5 and 8) that may use Croatian language and letters...
Some of you may have learned that there are three letters in Croatian language that are written as digraphs (two-letter symbols used for a single phoneme) - DŽ, LJ and NJ. None of these letters will be used in any of the puzzles in the championship.
So you don't have to worry about that. Every time you see a word consisting of, let's say, six letters - they have to occupy six cells of a puzzle grid.
As for other letters uncommon to western European languages, some of them may be used in some puzzles.
Those are: Č (as in English - check), Ć (as in Italian - ciao), Đ (as in Italian - Giovanni), Š (as in English - shout) and Ž (as in French - Jean).
So, watch out for them. :)
Goran Vodopija
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:00 am

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby alberto » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:48 am

Goran Vodopija wrote:
Part 8, puzzle 13 (Islands in Scrabble): must common letters fit also for diacritical marks? (As letter Š in row4 column4)

Just to make sure about this puzzle and some other puzzles (part 10, puzzles 3, 5 and 8) that may use Croatian language and letters...
Some of you may have learned that there are three letters in Croatian language that are written as digraphs (two-letter symbols used for a single phoneme) - DŽ, LJ and NJ. None of these letters will be used in any of the puzzles in the championship.
So you don't have to worry about that. Every time you see a word consisting of, let's say, six letters - they have to occupy six cells of a puzzle grid.
As for other letters uncommon to western European languages, some of them may be used in some puzzles.
Those are: Č (as in English - check), Ć (as in Italian - ciao), Đ (as in Italian - Giovanni), Š (as in English - shout) and Ž (as in French - Jean).
So, watch out for them. :)


Thank you Goran; I have no problems with the croatian letters, due to my croatian chess friends and tournaments; I wanted only to be sure that, for example, S and Š were two different letters.

Alberto
alberto
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:47 am

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby drsudoku » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:35 pm

Very excited to see the puzzles you have written this year. I had a few questions on puzzles and on structure:

Puzzles:
Part 4, Page 3 - To clarify, there are three puzzles here that use three different outside rules - "The First", "The Second", "Not the First"? Will the correspondence of rules to puzzles be clearly marked?

Part 8, Puzzle 9 - Will the missing dominoes be a full 0-6 set or will it be a smaller set of pieces?

Part 11, Puzzle 4 - Am I correct that the word "adjacent" here, regarding wells near houses, means edge adjacent and not corner adjacent? Adjacent is used elsewhere for both contexts, and this is I think the only use of adjacent I can find in the instruction booklet.

Structure/Rules:
20 finishers ending round early: As I understand this rule, once 20 booklets have been turned in the round is over. This rule seems dangerous to me, considering from experience that I know some competitors may turn in rounds early without being finished. Will any effort be made to see if the turned in round could be correct (for example, checking that grids are not blank)? To go to a hypothetical extreme, if large (A+B) teams from countries XXX, YYY, and ZZZ decide to all turn in 20 booklets within the first minute, does the whole round end for everyone when no one has finished a single puzzle? If this happened later in the round -- say 15 minutes in -- when a solver is just frustrated with their progress and wants to stop, would it also have the same effect? Do unofficial competitors (B team members) affect this count of 20?

Finals: Are competitors expected to write on the billboards in marker, to assist the audience in viewing the puzzles, or can the competitor decide how he/she wants to write such as in pencil? Different hosts have applied this kind of rule and I would like to know what you expect since the ability to "erase" is much different in the two circumstances.
drsudoku
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Zrile13 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:03 pm

drsudoku wrote:Very excited to see the puzzles you have written this year. I had a few questions on puzzles and on structure:

Puzzles:
Part 4, Page 3 - To clarify, there are three puzzles here that use three different outside rules - "The First", "The Second", "Not the First"? Will the correspondence of rules to puzzles be clearly marked?

Part 8, Puzzle 9 - Will the missing dominoes be a full 0-6 set or will it be a smaller set of pieces?

Part 11, Puzzle 4 - Am I correct that the word "adjacent" here, regarding wells near houses, means edge adjacent and not corner adjacent? Adjacent is used elsewhere for both contexts, and this is I think the only use of adjacent I can find in the instruction booklet.

Structure/Rules:
20 finishers ending round early: As I understand this rule, once 20 booklets have been turned in the round is over. This rule seems dangerous to me, considering from experience that I know some competitors may turn in rounds early without being finished. Will any effort be made to see if the turned in round could be correct (for example, checking that grids are not blank)? To go to a hypothetical extreme, if large (A+B) teams from countries XXX, YYY, and ZZZ decide to all turn in 20 booklets within the first minute, does the whole round end for everyone when no one has finished a single puzzle? If this happened later in the round -- say 15 minutes in -- when a solver is just frustrated with their progress and wants to stop, would it also have the same effect? Do unofficial competitors (B team members) affect this count of 20?

Finals: Are competitors expected to write on the billboards in marker, to assist the audience in viewing the puzzles, or can the competitor decide how he/she wants to write such as in pencil? Different hosts have applied this kind of rule and I would like to know what you expect since the ability to "erase" is much different in the two circumstances.


Part 4, Page 3 : Yes it will be clearly marked which is which
Part 8, Puzzle 9: Some numbers are missing and with those missing numbers you will have a full set, so some numbers from a set will be missing
Part 11, Puzzle 4: Yes, adjacent means orthogonality connected, not diagonally

Structure/rules:
This rule is applied in rounds where there are fixed bonuses, and there is only 10 of them. So we expect that out of those 20, 10 will be correct and get a bonus. We hope there will be no scenario that anyone gives up and does not solve till the time is finished if he/she did not solve something. Do not personally see any positive outcome for that for anyone. There will be severe penalties for anyone that turns in their puzzle booklet (in fixed bonuses rounds) without every puzzle being solved. B team competitors do affect that count, and are counted in bonuses.

Finals: Yes, finalists are expected to write in marker

Zrinka
Last edited by Zrile13 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zrile13
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby drsudoku » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Thanks for your answers. I had a few more that come from the last response.

Zrile13 wrote:Finals: Yes, finalists are expected to write in marker


Will there be a second copy of a puzzle available if a solver needs to start over because the grid has become too messy (as was done in WPC Rio)?
Will solvers have two or more colors of marker made available to them (usually the case)?
If a solver generally writes in marker, chooses to guess near the end in pencil, and then writes over all aspects in marker before submitting, will this be accepted (something like this was the situation at WSC Prague)?
drsudoku
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Zrile13 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:40 pm

drsudoku wrote:Thanks for your answers. I had a few more that come from the last response.

Zrile13 wrote:Finals: Yes, finalists are expected to write in marker


Will there be a second copy of a puzzle available if a solver needs to start over because the grid has become too messy (as was done in WPC Rio)?
Will solvers have two or more colors of marker made available to them (usually the case)?
If a solver generally writes in marker, chooses to guess near the end in pencil, and then writes over all aspects in marker before submitting, will this be accepted (something like this was the situation at WSC Prague)?


There will not be a second copy of a puzzle.
Solvers will have at least two different markers at their disposal.
The finalists will not be allowed to have a pencil with them and to write with it.

Zrinka
Zrile13
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Para » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:05 pm

Zrile13 wrote:Structure/rules:
This rule is applied in rounds where there are fixed bonuses, and there is only 10 of them. So we expect that out of those 20, 10 will be correct and get a bonus. We hope there will be no scenario that anyone gives up and does not solve till the time is finished if he/she did not solve something. Do not personally see any positive outcome for that for anyone. There will be severe penalties for anyone that turns in their puzzle booklet (in fixed bonuses rounds) without every puzzle being solved. B team competitors do affect that count, and are counted in bonuses.

Zrinka


Why do the B-team solvers affect bonuses if they aren't official participants? It seems a bit weird to say that someone isn't an official participant, but still have them affect the standings of the official participants.
In the team Marina round the B-teams don't affect the official standings either but are placed in between. So why aren't B-solvers granted an intermediate bonus, based on their relative standings among the official participants?

And this isn't that odd an occurence, as you can see from last year when the top 15 had 2 B-team participants. And now with B-teams from Germany, Japan and USA, with very strong base of solvers, the chance only gets bigger.

Also, is there an option of instant checking the puzzles? I remember it happening in Arnhem in 2003 to make sure there were 10 correct finishers when the round was closed. The booklets were brought to the front to a row of checkers and graded on the spot. As it's only a small numbers of booklets that really need to be checked, that should be a valid option.
Para
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:19 pm

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Goran Vodopija » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:56 pm

I must say that I agree with you on this matter, Bram. I also think that B-teams (and all other unofficial competitors) should not have all the privileges that the official competitors have. I think that it's enough to let countries bring more people than usual number, but now letting them have the same rights would affect the competition too much.
Anyway, that's still a matter of discussion and we'll make a decision that's best for official competitors (in the first place), for us, the organizers (as we have limited amount of resources, personnel and time to change much of the prepared puzzle rounds), and in the spirit of fair play.
We are also counting on the fair play of those nations that will come to the championship with B-teams.
:)
Goran Vodopija
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:00 am

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby alberto » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:51 am

Goran Vodopija wrote:I must say that I agree with you on this matter, Bram. I also think that B-teams (and all other unofficial competitors) should not have all the privileges that the official competitors have. I think that it's enough to let countries bring more people than usual number, but now letting them have the same rights would affect the competition too much.
Anyway, that's still a matter of discussion and we'll make a decision that's best for official competitors (in the first place), for us, the organizers (as we have limited amount of resources, personnel and time to change much of the prepared puzzle rounds), and in the spirit of fair play.
We are also counting on the fair play of those nations that will come to the championship with B-teams.
:)


Hi Goran,
let me add a comment about the 20 finishers rule. I'm completely agree with Bram. Apart from extreme behaviors, a puzzler may decide to fill the last two or three grids with more or less random tools in order to contribute to stop the clock. That's not fair play, of course, but not so easy to detect.
But my observation regards "normal" players like me. Many players make a plan for every part, based on respective experience. First this puzzle, then this one and so on. Suppose we are in the last 5 minutes. I know that I can solve a particular puzzle in such time, so I begin. But suddenly the 20th puzzler finishes and time expires. I've been penalized without fault. In the opposite, a player withour a plan, with the remaining, say, 3 minutes, and who has no other easy puzzles to solve, supposes that these 3 minutes will be unuseful ("Oh, what a pity" he thinks, "I have nothing else to solve, 3 minutes lost"), but suddenly a miracle happens and time expires. His lack of solving strategie has been awarded. In practice, I can be penalized or awarded by a (from my point of view) random event.
In my modest opinion of normal player, the two strictly connected rules "bonus-20 finishers" should be some way revisited, but frankly speaking, don't know how.
The bonus rule was present also in Eger last year, but as far as know, nobody talked about that.

Alberto
alberto
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:47 am

Re: WPC 2012. instruction booklet

Postby Para » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:35 am

Hi

I have one question about the playoffs puzzle pool. Will we get some indication of difficulty for the puzzles in the pool, like a points value? For me there's a difference in picking a puzzle of 2 points value or 10 points value even if it's the same genre. I saw that in the WSC there was a difference made between easy and hard sudokus.
Para
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Public section

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron